Wednesday, March 7, 2012

110 Patriots & the Confederacy; American Progress by John Gast

(1) Patriots & the Confederacy
(2) Patriots & the Confederacy; and American Progress by John Gast
(3) Joe Wilson, who called out "You Lie" when Obama addressed Congress, is a Confederate
(4) Hal Turner a FBI Provocateur
(5) Southerners against the Confederacy
(6) Post civil war reconstruction and confederate immigration to Brazil
(7) The Confederacy had three different Railway Gauges
(8) Standard gauge of rail tracks goes back to Wheel-ruts of Chariots & Carts
(9) Origin of Stone Rutways - to hold chariot wheels

(1) Patriots & the Confederacy

From: The Patriot Dames <>  Date: 29.09.2009 10:41 PM

> Red Cross document "disproving Holocaust" is
> leading Internet Dissidents astray

> The original scan is from the Hal Turner show,
> 4 June 2007

> The US "Patriot" movement is committing suicide
> by allowing infiltration by Confederates.

I know of no soldiers during world war two that had anything good to say about the Red Cross.

As far as Hal Turner and the 'confederates,' I resent the analogy.  Hal Turner is a foul-mouth shock jock.  He's gone off the deep end, which sometimes happens to people persecuted by the Jew-Zionists.  'Confederates' implies those from the South and is supposed to represent 'racism.'  Big fat lie and a big fat insult. 

See what you can do to correct this problem with people using sacred names to represent foul points.  We all know our Federal Reserve money has Jewish symbols on it (gee, why not?) yet Americans (confederate or yankee) still persist in blaming the Masons.

What if I said all Australians originated from a penal colony?  Oh, sorry.  That's true.  See my point?

(2) Patriots & the Confederacy; and American Progress by John Gast

Reply to Susie - Peter M., September 30, 2009

Joe Wilson, who called out "You Lie" when Obama was speaking to Congress, fought to keep the Confederate flag flying over South Carolina's capitol.

So I did not invent this issue - it's been there all along, just under the surface.

> What if I said all Australians originated from a penal colony?

You'd be right. But it's not offensive to say so.

The following article says that Hal Turner is an FBI provocateur:

Whether that's true or not, his material is offensive and should not be used. That's why I had to respond to that "Red Cross report" he circulated.

William Pierce of the National Alliance wrote some insightful articles, but he called blacks "sub-humans" (in his article called Elites and Masses).

Patriots who include people who say such things in their ranks alienate others (including me).

The divide over the Confederacy is as alive today as it was during the Civil War.

Last week, I came across the painting called American Progress by John Gast, circa 1872:

I assume you know about it, but (in case you don't) I'll include some info about it, before giving my comments.

Close up (minus outer parts) at

John gast's "American Progress" (1872) In john gast's "american progress," (1872) a diaphanously and precarious clad america floats westward thru the air with the "star of empire" on her forehead. She has left the cities of the east behind, and the wide mississippi, and still her course is westward. In her right hand she carries a school book-- testimonial of the national enlightenment, while with her left she trails the slender wires of the telegraph that will bind the nation. Fleeing her approach are indians, buffalo, wild horses, bears, and other game, disappearing into the storm and waves of the pacific coast. They flee the wonderous vision--the star "is too much for them."--precis of a contemporary description of this painting by george crofutt who distributred his engraving of it widely. ==

This painting (circa 1872) by John Gast called American Progress, is an allegorical representation of Manifest Destiny. Here Columbia, intended as a personification of the United States, leads civilization westward with American settlers, stringing telegraph wire as she travels; she holds a school book. The different economic activities of the pioneers are highlighted and, especially, the changing forms of transportation. The Native Americans and wild animals flee. ==

This painting was asssociated with the doctrine of Manifest Destiny (which spawned the Monroe Doctrine). Wikipedia article's on it says differences over Slavery - more broadly, over the issue of the inclusion of Indians, Mexicans and Blacks - split the Nationalist movement: "Northerners and Southerners, in effect, were coming to define Manifest Destiny in different ways, undermining nationalism as a unifying force."

John Gast's American Progress came as quite a shock to me. I could see a connection at once with the Cowboys & Indians movies I watched as a child at the local cinema (before TV). And later with the TV ones.

But we don't make those movies now. Why? Because of the 60's/70s movement, I suppose. We're now able to see things from the viewpoint of the Indians.

Equally shocking was the sight of the Native Animals (bison, bears) fleeing before the invading Whites. I suppose that's why we have National Parks now.

This was a story of Race Nationalism. It applied not only to the US, but to Australia and the British Empire.

It was also a story of Christian Identity.

The painting is frankly Genocidal: it depicts Genocidal intent, with no thought that it might be seen as such one day.

On the only occasion I have been in a Synagogue, I noticed that Jews, when challenged, form their wagons into a circle and fire outwards on their challengers, just like those American settlers invading Indian territory.

When I was a child, I regularly played "Cowboys & Indians" and "Cops & Robbers". These were boys' games which required no gadgets - one simply used one's index & middle fingers to simulate a gun. We would "shoot" each other; girls played hopskotch and skipping games.

I would have identified with American Progress then, but can no longer do so.

These days, the Patriot movement in the US seems to uphold the values implicit in that painting.

But just as the Slavery issue split the Nationalism movement 150 years ago, so the Race issue divides today.

I cannot work with anyone who derides whole groups of people AS GROUPS. It's ok to make comments about "most" people of a certain group - allowing for individual exceptions - but not about "all".

(3) Joe Wilson, who called out "You Lie" when Obama addressed Congress, is a Confederate

Boy, Oh, Boy

Published: September 12, 2009

Surrounded by middle-aged white guys — a sepia snapshot of the days when such pols ran Washington like their own men’s club — Joe Wilson yelled “You lie!” ...

But, fair or not, what I heard was an unspoken word in the air: You lie, boy!

The outburst was unexpected from a milquetoast Republican backbencher from South Carolina who had attracted little media attention. Now it has made him an overnight right-wing hero, inspiring “You lie!” bumper stickers and T-shirts.

The congressman, we learned, belonged to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, led a 2000 campaign to keep the Confederate flag waving above South Carolina’s state Capitol ... ==

— By James Ridgeway | Thu September 10, 2009 3:44 PM PST

Rep. Joe Wilson, the congressman who accused the President of lying last night during his address on health care to a joint session of Congress, isn’t just some mean-spirited buffoon. As a South Carolina legislator, he was one of only 7 state senators who fought to keep the confederate battle flag flying over the state capital. South Carolina, of course, was the first state to leave the Union after Lincoln was elected. ...

... then-Sen. Wilson did more than vote to keep [the flag]: he went so far as to appear to defend the Confederacy, declaring that "the Confederate heritage is very honorable." Here's the full quote from a BBC News report:

But local lawmakers, like Republican senator Joe Wilson say it is all about pride and history, and nothing to do with racism and hate. He finds comparisons with Nazis odious.

"That's offensive to me that they would take my heritage and make it into a Holocaust era type description. I find that very offensive, and it's not true," Senator Wilson said. "The Southern heritage, the Confederate heritage is very honourable."

The decision to fly the Confederate battle flag was made by an all-white legislature in 1962 as the civil rights movement was picking up steam. The bill passed in 2000 didn't even remove the flag entirely—it called for a different version of flag to be flown in front of the state house instead of on top of it.

The continued presence of a Confederate flag at the state house has caused the controversy to continue. In July 2009, the Atlantic Coast Conference—after discussions with the NAACP—decided to move three future college baseball tournaments out of South Carolina.

(4) Hal Turner a FBI Provocateur

Hal Turner a Trained FBI Agent Provocateur

Kurt Nimmo
August 18, 2009

Radio talk show host and blogger Hal Turner was an FBI trained agent provocateur, his attorney told reporters in Hartford today. The supposed white supremacist worked for the agency from 2002 until 2007. “His job was basically to publish information which would cause other parties to act in a manner which would lead to their arrest," Michael Orozco told the Associated Press. ... ==

Chicago- During his federal hearing in Chicago racist radio host Hal Turner claimed to be a federal informant under oath today in his plea for not guilty in court.

Turner, who has been in the news over the years for his crazy internet and radio language was arrested for threatening 3 Chicago federal judges and exposed their personal information on his blog claiming that they should be killed over gun control legislation.
A federal judge from Louisiana will be brought in to preside over the case.

    U.S. Magistrate Judge Martin Ashman gave Turner 10 days to subpoena an FBI agent who Turner contends acted as his handler as he supplied the government with information <>. Turner’s lawyer, Michael Orozco, said Turner prevented military equipment from being sold on the Internet and even tipped off the U.S. Marshal Service to a threat against President Barack Obama.

    “So you’re saying he’s an American hero,” Ashman said somewhat sarcastically.

This is an EPIC WIN for “Anonymous” who back in 2007 hacked into Turner’s e-mail and discovered an e-mail correspondence between Turner and the NJ state FBI office. <>

Judge Ashman has given Turner 10 days to subpoena the FBI agent Turner claims to be an informant for.

Yes, this is going to get real interesting.

SPECIAL NOTE! Don’t forget to check out Mike Flugennock’s video The Hal Turner Mash up for lulz! ==

> From: Hal Turner []
> Sent: Sun 7/1/2007 4:53 PM
> To:; Len Nerbetski
> Subject: Threat to Kill Senator Feingold of Wisconsin on July 4
> Guys:
> I wrote an opinion piece on my site today in which I opine about
> 46 US Senators who I believe should be removed from office on
> July 4 for betraying their constituents and this nation.
> An anonymous person, posting on the outside, third-party visitor
> comments area of my web site wrote:
> "im going to kill senator feingold on july 4th. may thomas
> paine smile upon me and alexander hamilton bless my cause.
> praise the lord and pass the ammunition."
> As you are probably aware, Feingold is from Wisconsin.
> The posting was made today, July 1, 2007 at 4:34 PM EST from IP
> address which comes back to the University of
> Wisconsin.
> The posting can be viewed by the general public at:
> Once again, my fierce rhetoric has served to flush out a
> possible crazy.
> Please acknowledge receipt of this warning. Of late, both of
> you have become remiss in acknowledging e-mails.
> HT

Radio host denies threatening federal judges
July 28, 2009 12:59 PM | 33 Comments

An Internet radio host pleaded not guilty today to threatening to kill three federal appellate judges in Chicago and then sought his release from custody, saying he has been an informant for the FBI.

Hal Turner, who was arrested last month at his home in New Jersey, shook his head after being handed a copy of the indictment.

Turner is charged with calling for appellate judges Frank Easterbrook, William Bauer and Richard Posner to be killed after they affirmed a lower court decision June 2 to dismiss challenges to Chicago's handgun ban.

Turner allegedly used his web site to put out the message that all three were "cunning, ruthless, untrustworthy, disloyal, unpatriotic, deceitful scum."

"Let me be the first to say this plainly: These judges deserve to be killed," he allegedly said.

A federal judge from Louisiana will be brought in to preside over the case.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Martin Ashman gave Turner 10 days to subpoena an FBI agent who Turner contends acted as his handler as he supplied the government with information. Turner's lawyer, Michael Orozco, said Turner prevented military equipment from being sold on the Internet and even tipped off the U.S. Marshal Service to a threat against President Barack Obama.

"So you're saying he's an American hero," Ashman said somewhat sarcastically.

As for the charges, Orozco said Turner was only giving his opinion on the judges' ruling and that he has a Constitutional right to free speech.

Assistant U.S. Atty. William Hogan said a magistrate judge in New Jersey had already ordered Turner detained before he was sent to Chicago, finding that he was a threat to the community. He has continued to air threatening radio messages on the Internet since his arrest, including a call placed from custody in New Jersey, Hogan said.

Hogan said Turner may have had some contact with the FBI as an informant but that it was quite some time ago. He said he had no idea about any action Turner supposedly took to thwart an attack on the president.

-- Jeff Coen

(5) Southerners against the Confederacy

Rising Up Against a Rich Man's War

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By Stephen Budiansky
Sunday, September 27, 2009


The Small Southern County That Seceded From the Confederacy

By Sally Jenkins and John Stauffer

Doubleday. 402 pp. $27.50

By the end of the Civil War, more than 100,000 men had deserted from the Confederate Army. Nearly all were from the poorest class of non-slaveholding yeomen farmers, and they bitterly resented the aristocratic disdain of their officers, the plight of families left to wrest subsistence from hardscrabble farms, and a war that increasingly seemed only to serve slavery and the wealthy planter class. As one Alabama farmer put it, "All tha want is to git you ... to fight for their infurnal negroes and after you do their fightin' you may kiss their hine parts for o tha care."

Above all, the poor Southerners resented the law passed by the Confederate Congress in October 1862 that exempted from the draft one able-bodied white man on every plantation with 20 or more slaves. "I'm through," declared one Mississippi infantryman when he heard of the "Twenty Negro Law." He then uttered a phrase that, as Sally Jenkins and John Stauffer observe in "The State of Jones," echoed through the South for the rest of the war: "This ... makes it a rich man's war and a poor man's fight."

Thousands of deserters returned to their homes in the upcountry of northern Mississippi and Alabama, east Tennessee and western North Carolina, determined not merely to sit out the war but actively to oppose the Confederacy. Ten thousand men in western and central North Carolina formed the "Heroes of America," carried out raids on Confederate sympathizers and helped fellow Unionists escape to join the federal army. And in the backwoods of Jones County, Miss., a band of deserters and other Unionists became a virtual law unto themselves for the last two years of the war, organizing an infantry company, declaring their allegiance to the United States and assassinating Confederate cavalry officers sent to round them up. The captain of these "Jones County Scouts" was a hard-bitten farmer named Newton Knight, and his story forms the centerpiece of Jenkins and Stauffer's occasionally engrossing but uneven book.

As the authors rightly emphasize, the very existence of such men as Knight poses a challenge to the Lost Cause mythology that the defeated South embraced. In many ways the Confederacy won the war for memory for a century to come, making heroes of its leaders, expunging from school textbooks and battlefield monuments any mention of slavery as the cause of the war, elevating the fight to a noble crusade whose defeat was not a repudiation but merely a tragic failure.

And so the story of Southern Unionism and its internal opposition to the Confederacy largely vanished from the narratives of the war and its aftermath. Southern Unionists were dismissed as a few "tories," "low scoundrels" or "traitors." Knight committed an even more unpardonable sin when he and a former slave named Rachel lived as man and wife. That gives his story both a poignancy and a strange power that reverberated through the following century of racial tribulations. In 1948, Knight's great-grandson was arrested and tried for the criminal offense of marrying a white woman: The state of Mississippi alleged that since his great-grandmother was black, he had one-eighth negro blood, which made him black under the state's miscegenation laws.

That as many as one-third of white Southerners opposed the Confederacy has been well known to historians of the Civil War for at least half a century. But their stories have yet to penetrate popular consciousness, which is why rescuing the biographies of men and women like Newton Knight and Rachel remains an urgent and compelling task. "The State of Jones" contains much that is moving and powerful. It also suffers from many flaws, some of which are avoidable and others not. ...

(6) Post civil war reconstruction and confederate immigration to Brazil

With the Southern economy in ruins after the Civil war, it is little wonder that many families of Confederate veterans would succumb to the pleas of Emperor Dom Pedro II of Brazil for immigrants with expertise in farming and cotton planting. By some accounts the number of immigrants from the Confederacy to Brazil in the period from 1865 to 1885 was as high as 9000 people. They came from all over the South, but the largest groups were from Alabama, Texas and South Carolina. Other States represented in this post-Civil War wave of immigration were Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia and Virginia. The majority of these immigrants settled in the São Paulo State in and around the small town of Vila Santa Bárbara (now known as Santa Bárbara D'Oeste) and founded the town of Americana a few miles away. The climate and soil of this region of Brazil was most like that of their native Southern states, and the pecans and peaches they introduced thrived, as did American varieties of corn and cotton they had brought with them.

One of the most prominent of these Confederate immigrants was Colonel William Hutchinson Norris. A native of Georgia, Colonel Norris was a veteran of the Mexican war, a lawyer and a U.S. Senator from Alabama before the Civil War began. Colonel Norris was in his sixties during the Civil War, but had four sons which served in the Alabama Infantry. Through his contacts in Brazil and in response to the urgings of Emperor Dom Pedro II, Colonel Norris organized the immigration of a large group of families from Alabama at the end of the war. The Emperor himself greeted Colonel Norris and his group on their arrival to Brazilian soil. Colonel Norris is considered the founder of the town of Americana, which today is a largely industrial (textiles) city of over 160,000 residents, mostly of Italian descent. In fact, it was under pressure from the majority Italian descendent population that the St. Andrew's cross of the Confederate battle flag was removed in 1999 from the crest of the city founded by Confederate immigrants.

In addition to the São Paulo State, Confederate families settled in the states of Pará, Bahia, Espirito Santo, Rio de Janeiro and Santa Catarina. One group from Alabama settled in Santarem, a city on the Amazon River in the State of Pará, that today is home to over 240,000 people. But as in Americana, their numbers and influence are much diminished from the late 19th Century. Many families returned to the States after a few years, however others stayed in Brazil and have largely been assimilated into the Brazilian culture. Signs of their influence though can still be seen today. In addition to the crops and farming techniques brought by these families to their new homeland, these Confederate families also brought their culture. In the Amazon region, during the Junino Festival (a festival held throughout Brazil in the last half of June) celebrating the folklore of the region, people outfitted in period Southern dress square dance to a band which, though definitely Brazilian, includes accordions and banjos.

Today, the descendents of the Confederate immigrants have spread out throughout Brazil assimilating into the local culture. However, evidence of their heritage can still be found, especially in the area around Americana, which is home to a chapter of the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV) who call themselves "Os Confederados". Formed in 1994 by descendents of the original immigrants wanting to retain ties to their heritage, "Os Confederados" hosts an annual party at the Campo Cemetery near Americana that would be the envy of any died-in-the-wool Southerner. Although only a few dozen families of confederados still live in Americana, descendents of the Confederate immigrants from throughout the São Paulo State converge on Campo Cemetery for the annual party. Southern-fried chicken, corn bread and blue grass music are some of the offerings at this April event. Rebel flags are very much in evidence as well, but members of "Os Confederados" claim the connotation of racism isn't attached to that symbol in Brazil as it is in the States. After all, many of them are dark skinned people that would be considered mulatto, or even black, in the States. They consider it a symbol of their heritage as Americans.

The site of the SCV party, Campo Cemetery, was founded in 1868 when one of their group who died was barred by local law, as a non-Catholic, from burial in the Catholic Cemetery in Vila Santa Bárbara. Today, Campo Cemetery has become a monument of spiritual, as well as historical significance, to the confederados. A sister organization to "Os Confederados", called Fraternidade Descendência Americana (FDA) and founded in 1954, maintains the Campo Cemetery. Each quarter on the second Sunday of the month, confederados gather at Campo Cemetery for a religious service followed by a traditional Southern-style church picnic lunch on the grounds. The FDA also maintains the Immigration Museum in Americana, which houses memorabilia from their Confederate ancestors.

Despite the entrenched traditions and homage paid to their heritage, many of the older confederados are worried that their heritage will be forgotten by the younger generations. There is already evidence of this, with many of the younger confederados not speaking English or taking an interest in the community's activities. However, as they themselves have assimilated into Brazilian culture, the Brazilian culture has assimilated some of their heritage and culture as well. This is a situation that most every immigrant population faces sooner or later, but as long as young Brazilian men "doh-si-doh" their partners, dressed in billowing Southern Belle dresses, the South will live in Brazil.

(7) The Confederacy had three different Railway Gauges

Re: Railway Gauge - An analysis (Score: 1)
by freightgate on 2004-09-20 13:53:28

Historian James Crow, writing about Housesteads, the 3rd century Roman fort built along Hadrian's Wall, notes that:

The wheel rut and gate stop in the north passage are well preserved, and a number of reused stone blocks formed part of the latest surface to survive. The gauge between the ruts is very similar to that adopted by George Stephenson for the Stockton to Darlington railway in 1837, and a 'Wall myth' developed that he took this gauge from the newly excavated east gate. There is a common link, but it is more prosaic, and the 'coincidence' is explained by the fact that the dimension common to both was that of a cart axle pulled by two horses in harness (about 1.4m or 4ft 8in). This determined both the Roman gauge and Stephenson's, which derived from the horsedrawn wagon ways of South Northumberland and County Durham coalfields.2 ...

American companies emulated and improved upon the English designs.  ...

Nonetheless, despite this commonality of equipment, well into the 19th century the U.S. still did not have one "standard" railroad gauge. At the time of the Civil War, even though nearly all of the Confederacy's railroad equipment had came from the North or from Britain (of the 470 locomotives built in the U.S. in 1860, for example, only 19 were manufactured in the South), 113 different railroad companies in the Confederacy operated on three different gauges of track. This lack of standardization was, as historian James McPherson points out, one of the many reasons the Union was able to finally vanquish the Confederacy militarily:

The Confederate government was never able to coax the fragmented, run-down, multi-gauged network of southern railroads into the same degree of efficiency exhibited by northern roads. This contrast illustrated another dimension of Union logistical superiority that helped the North eventually to prevail.3

The eventual standardization of railroad gauge in the U.S. was due far less to a slavish devotion to a gauge inherited from England than to the simple fact that the North won the Civil War and, in the process, rebuilt much of the Southern railway system to match its own:

[I]n the occupied South the government went into the railroad business on a large scale. In February 1862 [Secretary of War] Stanton established the U.S. Military Rail Roads and appointed Daniel McCallum superintendent. A former Erie Railroad executive and an efficient administrator, McCallum eventually presided over more than 2,000 miles of lines acquired, built, and maintained by the U.S.M.R.R.

(8) Standard gauge of rail tracks goes back to Wheel-ruts of Chariots & Carts

Haven't seen this one in ages, but the Brantford Expositor repeats this one which might not be well-known to a newer generation of Classicists <>:

    Here's a bit of train lore that may help you keep your life on the rails.

    Though few people realize it, the standard width of train tracks around the world owes its origin to ancient chariots. According to legend, rail lines are precisely four feet, 8 1 /2 inches wide, because that was the uniform width of British wagons. British wagons were that width because the country's roads were built by the Romans, whose chariots were always four feet, 8 1 /2 inches wide. By making wagons with that same measurement, their wheels would fit into the ruts carved by the Roman chariots, making it easier to travel.

    But the Encyclopedia of Railways says the standard size of rail tracks actually goes back to the time of Darius, the king of Persia (ancient Iran) who lived long before the Romans and is mentioned in Daniel 6:23. Since the king's military roads often passed along steep mountains, grooves were cut into those corridors to hold the chariot wheels and keep the vehicles from flying over the edge when horses were driven at top speed. Those grooves were precisely four-feet, 8 1 /2 inches wide, and can still be found today.

    By the time of the Romans, chariots were usually banned from cities that were designed mostly for pedestrians. At night, though, lumbering four-wheeled freight wagons were allowed in to carry goods to market. Since the streets were narrow and poorly lit, grooves were cut in the pavement to guide the big carts and stop them from hitting each other or the raised stones that marked most intersections. Again, those grooves were the same width as today's train tracks. [etc.]

(9) Origin of Stone Rutways - to hold chariot wheels

The Encyclopedia of Railways states that the standard gauge of 4'-8 1/2" goes back long before the time of the Romans. For example, at the time of Darius, king of the Persians (Daniel 6:31) the Persian empire had an excellent system of military roads, over which messengers could drive chariots at top speed. The countryside in Persia is rugged in places, with barren mountain ranges into the rocky flanks of which the military roads were cut. To keep the chariots from going off the side of the mountain while the horses were being lashed along at top speed, grooves were cut into the surface of the rock to hold the chariot wheels. The grooves are at the same centres as rails of standard gauge track are today. ...

Comment (Peter M.):

When you're driving on dry sand roads, it's almost impossible to drive anywhere but in the wheel-ruts. This is the case on Fraser Island, and also in Australia's sandy deserts.

It's a problem when two vehicles meet head-on. I heard of an accident in the Tanami Desert - as remote as you'd ever care to be - where two vehicles met on a crest. And I think I've heard of other similar cases.

Before bitumen (asphalt) roads and heavy road-making equipment, ruts on dirt roads would have been a commonplace. It would have been quite logical to have a standardized width between the ruts.

In Australia, Bullock Drays of the 1890s had wide axle-widths, wider than stage-coaches (as I recall from the museum at Toowoomba). But in ancient times, the wagons have been much smaller and lighter, so a single standardized wheel-rut would have been feasible.

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